The portrayal of Native Americans..

As a kid growing up, I recall enjoying these Westerns, and in my naivety, I sucked up this idea that these American cowboys were the good guys, and those strange men that whooped a lot, and wore feathers, well, they were clearly the bad guys!

Lol, talk about a genre of cinematic propaganda.

Are there any films you have seen that see things through the eyes of the native Americans, who were actually a peaceful and spiritual people, who were persecuted terribly, and who were the victims, not the offenders, at all....

Let me tell you. As a person who has Lakota blood that runs through my veins. My first time going to the plaines of South Dakota. I was overwhelmed with emotion as I stepped onto the plaines. Visions of what had been came to me. I felt the wind and the land spoke to me. I then saw in visions what had happened. I saw and felt what had happened. It was very difficult to handle.

Theophilus wrote:Let me tell you. As a person who has Lakota blood that runs through my veins. My first time going to the plaines of South Dakota. I was overwhelmed with emotion as I stepped onto the plaines. Visions of what had been came to me. I felt the wind and the land spoke to me. I then saw in visions what had happened. I saw and felt what had happened. It was very difficult to handle.

Here's a curiousity for you to think about.

Modern America - Perhaps the most religously diverse nation on the planet. And yet, despite that, and despite how 'dear' people in the US hold on to this ideal, it appears that this benevolence is not offered out to the Native Americans, who have been effectively ostracised in their own land.

Is that a fair comment, yes/no?

Steve

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

Theophilus wrote:Let me tell you. As a person who has Lakota blood that runs through my veins. My first time going to the plaines of South Dakota. I was overwhelmed with emotion as I stepped onto the plaines. Visions of what had been came to me. I felt the wind and the land spoke to me. I then saw in visions what had happened. I saw and felt what had happened. It was very difficult to handle.

Here's a curiousity for you to think about.

Modern America - Perhaps the most religously diverse nation on the planet. And yet, despite that, and despite how 'dear' people in the US hold on to this ideal, it appears that this benevolence is not offered out to the Native Americans, who have been effectively ostracised in their own land.

Is that a fair comment, yes/no?

Steve

Sure that is a fair comment. My family has a good deal of Indian bloodlines. Though you would not know it by the color of my skin. I am white skinned. Though you can tell a little I have high cheekbones, and thick hair. The Indians were great warriors. They fought well. There was one thing they were not ready for, and for that matter a lot of people are not ready for.........

Lawyers.

They signed treaties that they did not understand. Of course these were designed to put them at a disadvantage.

Of course as time has gone on. Some tribes still struggle. Other tribes have adjusted well. The tribes that are doing good. Well they hired................

Lawyers.

Theophilus wrote:

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

Theophilus wrote:Let me tell you. As a person who has Lakota blood that runs through my veins. My first time going to the plaines of South Dakota. I was overwhelmed with emotion as I stepped onto the plaines. Visions of what had been came to me. I felt the wind and the land spoke to me. I then saw in visions what had happened. I saw and felt what had happened. It was very difficult to handle.

Here's a curiousity for you to think about.

Modern America - Perhaps the most religously diverse nation on the planet. And yet, despite that, and despite how 'dear' people in the US hold on to this ideal, it appears that this benevolence is not offered out to the Native Americans, who have been effectively ostracised in their own land.

Is that a fair comment, yes/no?

Steve

Sure that is a fair comment. My family has a good deal of Indian bloodlines. Though you would not know it by the color of my skin. I am white skinned. Though you can tell a little I have high cheekbones, and thick hair. The Indians were great warriors. They fought well. There was one thing they were not ready for, and for that matter a lot of people are not ready for.........

Lawyers.

They signed treaties that they did not understand. Of course these were designed to put them at a disadvantage.

Of course as time has gone on. Some tribes still struggle. Other tribes have adjusted well. The tribes that are doing good. Well they hired................

Lawyers.

Tell me more about the part in bold, Eric.

Steve

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

Theophilus wrote:

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

Theophilus wrote:Let me tell you. As a person who has Lakota blood that runs through my veins. My first time going to the plaines of South Dakota. I was overwhelmed with emotion as I stepped onto the plaines. Visions of what had been came to me. I felt the wind and the land spoke to me. I then saw in visions what had happened. I saw and felt what had happened. It was very difficult to handle.

Here's a curiousity for you to think about.

Modern America - Perhaps the most religously diverse nation on the planet. And yet, despite that, and despite how 'dear' people in the US hold on to this ideal, it appears that this benevolence is not offered out to the Native Americans, who have been effectively ostracised in their own land.

Is that a fair comment, yes/no?

Steve

Sure that is a fair comment. My family has a good deal of Indian bloodlines. Though you would not know it by the color of my skin. I am white skinned. Though you can tell a little I have high cheekbones, and thick hair. The Indians were great warriors. They fought well. There was one thing they were not ready for, and for that matter a lot of people are not ready for.........

Lawyers.

They signed treaties that they did not understand. Of course these were designed to put them at a disadvantage.

Of course as time has gone on. Some tribes still struggle. Other tribes have adjusted well. The tribes that are doing good. Well they hired................

Lawyers.

Tell me more about the part in bold, Eric.

Steve

I will get back to you on this. I will have to do research to be able to respond properly. One thing is these treaties were designed to keep them in poverty. I know one thing, some reservations are still very dangerous even today for a white person to go into at the wrong time. Some are still bitter after what happened. I can't say I blame them for feeling that way.

I'd like to know more about these 'reservations'.

It sounds not too unlike the actions of the 'Israelites', since the 1940's.

Take over the land of another. Not a land without a people, a land that had people, in this case, Palestinians. Slowly, using a variety of methods, displace them from their own land, persecute and kill many along the way, before finally 'granting' them tiny strips of land - the Gaza strip, Indian reservations, etc.

It is not an absolute like for like, but I am sure you can see some similarities, Eric?


And, should anyone condone this action, let me ask this - would you also condone it if I used my superior strength to overpower the family next door, kill one or two family members(as a show of my 'strength'), assume 90% of THEIR home to now be mine, while affording those that remained of the family to live together in the toilet? Oh. And they should be grateful for it, and never retaliate?

No, you would not.

And neither would the law of any land.

So.

Why the difference?

As for the film thing - there's a movie coming out later this year in the US called New Moon. It's based on a book by Stephenie Meyer (yep - I'm a Twilighter lol). Anyway, the main characters best friend happens to be Native American and throughout the second book he and his tribe are very involved in the plot line. What I really liked is for the movie they cast ALL Native Americans (not islanders or others who looked Native American) to play the characters that are actually Native American. I REALLY hope that they do a good job representing the book in the movie, because the Native American parts of the book were incredibly intriguing.

As for the reservations, I definitely see similarities with the Palestine/Israel example you used. However, I'm TERRIFIED to drive through an Indian reservation now. My dad sold police software and he sold to some reservations. A piece of advice given to my dad from a police chief on one of these reservations was 'if you hit one of us while driving through the territory, just drive as fast as possible to get out of the territory - DO NOT STOP - and call the police once you are no longer on the territory'. Because reservations do not have to follow US law, they can arrest and hold someone indefinitely if they are caught on their reservation. So it really freaks me out now.

lisan24 wrote:Because reservations do not have to follow US law, they can arrest and hold someone indefinitely if they are caught on their reservation. So it really freaks me out now.

Do they not? Surely they must? On some aspects, at least?

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

lisan24 wrote:Because reservations do not have to follow US law, they can arrest and hold someone indefinitely if they are caught on their reservation. So it really freaks me out now.

Do they not? Surely they must? On some aspects, at least?

Not that I'm aware of. Reservations are considered their own "nations" with their own laws.

lisan24 wrote:

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:

lisan24 wrote:Because reservations do not have to follow US law, they can arrest and hold someone indefinitely if they are caught on their reservation. So it really freaks me out now.

Do they not? Surely they must? On some aspects, at least?

Not that I'm aware of. Reservations are considered their own "nations" with their own laws.

What about a murder? No FBI, etc? Nothing?

I just googled to double check, and the reservations do not follow US law. They are considered their own country, they issue their own passports, make their own laws, etc. I do know that if you are arrested on a reservation, the FBI will attempt to negotiate to get you released in into US custody (most Native Americans are still very bitter and will hold a white citizen indefinitely) - BUT the FBI or any other US agency has no rights when it comes to reservations. They just can't hop on them and try and take you.

lisan24 wrote:I just googled to double check, and the reservations do not follow US law. They are considered their own country, they issue their own passports, make their own laws, etc. I do know that if you are arrested on a reservation, the FBI will attempt to negotiate to get you released in into US custody (most Native Americans are still very bitter and will hold a white citizen indefinitely) - BUT the FBI or any other US agency has no rights when it comes to reservations. They just can't hop on them and try and take you.

This is fascinating.

Please pardon my ignorance when asking these following questions.


1) Do Native Americans resent the actual reservations themselves?

2) How many reservations are there in the US, and where are they located?

3) If someone left the reservation, killed someone in a nearby town or city, then returned to the reservation, surely then the FBI could go in and retrieve the killer? No?

I am really glad I started this thread.

Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:
This is fascinating.

Please pardon my ignorance when asking these following questions.


1) Do Native Americans resent the actual reservations themselves?

2) How many reservations are there in the US, and where are they located?

3) If someone left the reservation, killed someone in a nearby town or city, then returned to the reservation, surely then the FBI could go in and retrieve the killer? No?

I am really glad I started this thread.

I'm sure they resent the reservations, wouldn't you? I know I would.

Google said there was about 310 reservations in the US. Here is a link to a map showing where the reservations are: http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/DOCUMENTS/ResMAP.HTM

It looks like most reservations are in the Western states, which doesn't surprise me at all.

Just like other countries, the tribes have treaties and contracts with the US. I would assume that most of them have some sort of extradition agreement with the US should one of their people commit a serious crime. But then again, if there is an agreement like that, it's only a one way agreement.

lisan24 wrote:I'm sure they resent the reservations, wouldn't you? I know I would..

In principle, of course I would, I was just trying to determine if it was the actual reservations they most resented, or 'white' people, in general.

They are not confined to these reservations though, are they?

In theory, is there anything to stop them leaving those hated reservations, and living in among the masses?

x

They are not confined to reservations (as far as I know) and I honestly think that the majority live in the US instead of the reservation.

I think that those who are bitter encompass both living on a reservation as well as white people (who legitimately did put them there). Reservations do have some benefits to Native Americans, however I'm not sure what those are, and I'm about to take off so I'll google it later.

lisan24 wrote:They are not confined to reservations (as far as I know) and I honestly think that the majority live in the US instead of the reservation.

I think that those who are bitter encompass both living on a reservation as well as white people (who legitimately did put them there). Reservations do have some benefits to Native Americans, however I'm not sure what those are, and I'm about to take off so I'll google it later.

In the end, it amounts to a sort of segregation, apartheid, call it what you will.

People settle in the US, the natives are ostracised.

People settle in OZ, the Aborigines are ostracised.

People settle in S Africa, and the local masses are discriminated against.

Always the same story, it would appear.

Real quick here...there are a number of Native American Reservations here in the States that have legalized gambling/casinos. These for the most part bring in millions of $$ to the Reservations. In addition, the casinos are a good source of employment for the Native Americans living there.

Would have to do some more research for specifics, but having visited one of these casinos in Minnesota a few years ago, I saw this for myself.

I thought of a good film (from the 70's, I believe) to recommend on the Native American theme of this thread, but the name escapes me at the moment, so I will do some additional research & provide more information to this forum soon.

Love this topic!! I have a degree in History so this is right down my alley, lol.

Interesting post.

I guess I could do this research on Google, however, it is more fun on the forum, as you can then engage with others over the answers.

So.... before white man arrived in what is now the US, over what land mass did the native Americans inhabit? I would imagine there would be many areas that had no native Americans, that had no one at all living there, right? Or wrong?

Also, how many tribes of Native Americans lived alongside one another?

Did these tribes often have wars among each other, or did they live relatively peacefully among one another?