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The Coffee Shop

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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:23 am

    I consider my city, Edinburgh, to be fairly multi cultural.

    Less so than some others, more so than many.

    Increasingly so too, might I add.

    I came back to Edinburgh late last year, having really been away from the place for two or three years.

    I was actually quite taken aback at the change, the larger numbers of people from Eastern Europe, and Asians, predominatly Pakistani people, and Indians.

    Now, while fully appreciating that there are good and bad among all people, no matter their race or religion, my experience with the asian community is less than positive.

    I find them to be aloof and often rude.

    I try to be polite to everyone, no matter their origin, however, many Pakistani's come here, and they establish a small business, esp small shops that sell tobacco and newspapers.

    Since I am giving them my business, all I ask in return are my goods and a little politeness, but I find them arupt and rude in their manner.

    I am not saying that there aren't any friendly Pakistani and Asian people in the UK, it is just that in my experience, they are not easy to get to know, and engage with.

    Could it be a cultural thing, on their part?

    Maybe acts that we consider 'polite' are not seen as important in their own country?

    Just a thought, there.

    That said, if the scenario were reversed, and I hoped to go to a nation, and make a living out of the locals, then I would educate myself to their customs, and accomodate them.

    I would do that out of respect, and that is what I am driving at, it seems a disproptionate number don't are not predisposed to that obligation of respect, I sometimes even feel that many Pakistani's that come here almost look down their noses at the native Brits, and feel they are better than them.

    Does it make me a racist to say such things, or might there be a kernel of truth to what I write?
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    Post  Theophilus Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:46 pm

    In some countries people like to negotiate for the price. In those countries if you pay the price shown believe it or not it is seen as being rude. Could be they just are having a difficult time adjusting to the culture. Also who knows what people they have had to deal with. Perhaps a few rude people put them into a foul mood. They should remember one thing. It takes a while to get a customer, only takes one second to lose one.

    Also no I do not think what you said is racist. Not at all. Racism is all about hate. I saw nothing hateful in your post.
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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:25 am

    It could be seen by some as racist, I see it however as ignorant (not in insult, it simply means unaware... Lack of experience, knowledge..) "our ways" are very different to "their ways" lol... There is a blank, missing connection between how their culture works and how their language works...

    Example people tend to stereotype the germans as uptight pushy blunt people.. But, it isn't that they are this way... It is the conversion of their native tongue to ours....

    Every language is different... Very different, and when one attempts to talk in another language to a different group of people they attempt to still talk in their ways but using our language... I dunno if I am making it clear? lol.....

    Suggestion! Go to say, Afgan to a busy market and experience it lol. Maybe even try to setup a stall Very Happy
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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:08 am

    Well, here is an example of what I call sheer ignorance.

    I have a shared garden, mate, with the other tenants in this block.

    Last weekend, I was out the back with the dogs, and there was washing on the line, including a duvet cover, which had gotten blown off by the wind.

    An asian women stepped out, these items belonged to her.

    I politely tried to engage her in conversation, suggesting that she used some of the pegs from the other blanket, to support the one that had blown off.

    She totally ignored me.

    Then one of my dogs came within about a metre of her, and she let out a little scream.

    Again, trying to be polite, I asked her if she was scared of dogs, so that I could maybe remove the mutt, if she had a phobia.

    Again, totally ignored me.

    Now, if I went to any country in the world and responded to one of my native born neighbours that way, what do you think their impression of me might be?
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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:17 am

    One quick question I just have to ask... She can speak English right? lol.
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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:31 am

    17 wrote:One quick question I just have to ask... She can speak English right? lol.

    Well, this was an obvious question that I asked myself.

    Indeed, my g/f asked me the same thing.

    My honest answer is - I do not know.

    However, I have spoken to many Indians and Pakistani people in the UK, and have yet to come across ONE that didn't have a decent grasp of English, indeed, is it not one of the languages that they teach in schools there, as a matter of course?

    Even if she couldn't speak English v well, there is, of course, the universal 'body language'. I lived in Spain, and could speak v little Spanish.

    If a Spaniard spoke to me, I would smile, look them in the eye, and apologise. They would understand that I could not communicate with them verbally, very well, and would not be left offended.

    My g/f also suggested that perhaps her (much) older husband forbids her from speaking to men.

    Could be that.

    Not my problem, but it could be that. The entire religion of Islam is anti female, imo, and oppressive toward them.
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    Post  I see... Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:35 am

    Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:
    17 wrote:One quick question I just have to ask... She can speak English right? lol.

    Well, this was an obvious question that I asked myself.

    Indeed, my g/f asked me the same thing.

    My honest answer is - I do not know.

    However, I have spoken to many Indians and Pakistani people in the UK, and have yet to come across ONE that didn't have a decent grasp of English, indeed, is it not one of the languages that they teach in schools there, as a matter of course?

    Even if she couldn't speak English v well, there is, of course, the universal 'body language'. I lived in Spain, and could speak v little Spanish.

    If a Spaniard spoke to me, I would smile, look them in the eye, and apologise. They would understand that I could not communicate with them verbally, very well, and would not be left offended.

    My g/f also suggested that perhaps her (much) older husband forbids her from speaking to men.

    Could be that.

    Not my problem, but it could be that. The entire religion of Islam is anti female, imo, and oppressive toward them.

    Less of an opinion, more of a fact Very Happy
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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:38 am

    It is mate.

    Look at the way Muslim women have been conditioned to dress.

    A living and breathing example of a religion that oppresses women.
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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:43 am

    What you speak of regarding the females.. You have a "know your role" in the asian world as well.... Many females will not speak unless they are given permission by husband... Specially to another man! Specially to a forgein man as well! you! lol. Even the romans found you scots intimidating, and the kings of England also... Maybe she saw this bonny scot lad coming up to her and just was intimidated and not speaking Engli...Scottish just stone walled you?

    Then again I have trouble undserstanding some scots lol Rab C nesbitt lol......
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    Post  I see... Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:52 am

    Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:It is mate.

    Look at the way Muslim women have been conditioned to dress.

    A living and breathing example of a religion that oppresses women.

    http://www.lowpayunit.org.uk/research/factswomenpay.shtml
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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:00 am

    17 wrote:What you speak of regarding the females.. You have a "know your role" in the asian world as well.... Many females will not speak unless they are given permission by husband... Specially to another man! Specially to a forgein man as well! you! lol. Even the romans found you scots intimidating, and the kings of England also... Maybe she saw this bonny scot lad coming up to her and just was intimidated and not speaking Engli...Scottish just stone walled you?

    Then again I have trouble undserstanding some scots lol Rab C nesbitt lol......

    But I was born here. It is they who are 'foreign'. All I am saying is that if I went to their nation, I would respect the people of that nation, otherwise, I would also expect a hostile reaction.

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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:29 am

    I thought I'd add novelty Wink

    Oh I just over heard someone here at work saying an Asian postmaster has banned people entering his shop that cannot speak English... Now there is some Irony for you.
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    Post  I see... Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:31 am

    17 wrote:I thought I'd add novelty Wink

    Oh I just over heard someone here at work saying an Asian postmaster has banned people entering his shop that cannot speak English... Now there is some Irony for you.

    Got a link to that?
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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:35 am

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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:52 am

    How so, mate?

    I totally applaud what Deva Kumarasiri has done in that article.

    Personally, if it were down to me, I would pull the UK out of the existing EU, and deploy a five year ban on all immigration here.

    We are only a small island, and one in recession, and ever increasing unemployment.

    We must offer jobs to those that were born here first, and who have lived here all of their lives.

    Otherwise resentment will follow.
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    Post  I see... Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:54 am

    17 wrote:For ewe? But, of course...


    http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/westbridgford/Post-Office-bans-customers-t-speak-English/article-778172-detail/article.html

    Kinda goes agaisnt your general statement there eh YWFT

    "The white person cannot stand up and say anything because they automatically become a racist."

    Whilst I agree wholeheartedly, I fear this comment may be adopted by the wrong crowd. Neutral
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    Post  17 Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:08 pm

    Hmmm not sure about the job thing man.... Many of my old C18 brethern were low life thugs that leached off welfare.... Yet they were first in line to complain say for example about Polish "stealing" the jobs lol yet they were too effin lazy or full of pride to do the work themselves.....

    There are alot of people without work here yes, but they are mostly ones that have no intention to work... (of course that differs slightly now I assume cause of the "credit crunch" lol what a stoopid name.)
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    Post  Yeah Well Fine Then Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:11 pm

    17 wrote:Hmmm not sure about the job thing man.... Many of my old C18 brethern were low life thugs that leached off welfare.... Yet they were first in line to complain say for example about Polish "stealing" the jobs lol yet they were too effin lazy or full of pride to do the work themselves.....

    There are alot of people without work here yes, but they are mostly ones that have no intention to work... (of course that differs slightly now I assume cause of the "credit crunch" lol what a stoopid name.)

    I do not doubt for a nano second that a fringe group, like C18, would attract a lot of fantasists, and hypocrites, the kind that you allude to.

    However, they are not typical of the sort of people that I mean.

    Each day, we pick up a paper, and we read that thousands more jobs are set to go, at some very established companies.

    Unemployment presently sits at well over 2 millon, and that doesn't include those on Incapacity Benefit and Income Support, who the Government want to get back into the workplace.

    Which is all well and good, save for the fact that there are less and less jobs available, and those that are available are getting taken by a plethora of Eastern Europeans.

    That is before we even discuss the obscene number of illegal immigrants who come here, and who then vanish into the London ether.
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    Post  Theophilus Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:51 pm

    Yeah Well Fine Then wrote:
    17 wrote:Hmmm not sure about the job thing man.... Many of my old C18 brethern were low life thugs that leached off welfare.... Yet they were first in line to complain say for example about Polish "stealing" the jobs lol yet they were too effin lazy or full of pride to do the work themselves.....

    There are alot of people without work here yes, but they are mostly ones that have no intention to work... (of course that differs slightly now I assume cause of the "credit crunch" lol what a stoopid name.)

    I do not doubt for a nano second that a fringe group, like C18, would attract a lot of fantasists, and hypocrites, the kind that you allude to.

    However, they are not typical of the sort of people that I mean.

    Each day, we pick up a paper, and we read that thousands more jobs are set to go, at some very established companies.

    Unemployment presently sits at well over 2 millon, and that doesn't include those on Incapacity Benefit and Income Support, who the Government want to get back into the workplace.

    Which is all well and good, save for the fact that there are less and less jobs available, and those that are available are getting taken by a plethora of Eastern Europeans.

    That is before we even discuss the obscene number of illegal immigrants who come here, and who then vanish into the London ether.

    No doubt you across the pond are having some of the same problems we are. I like what you said about vanishing in the London. Now when I reference the fog I will refer to it as the London. I will say dude I can't hardly see anything through all this London. I am sure the Queen will not be amused.
    LOL.

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